DoJ Standards for Police-Too Much Realism?

Nerdling

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My issue with everything, and one of the main points that drove me away from being a cop is the amount of micromanagement from the DA's office on our report writing. It takes away from the time we are actually out in the field. It shouldnt take us 30 minutes to 45 minutes to write a report for a store robbery where they got away. I understand some of this is case law, such as witness statements, however, the sheer amount of details, and the micromanaged ones at that (like the picture being of the pockets of the suspect with the suspect in them instead of a cropped photo) are whats killing cop vibes for me.

with the addition of witness statements, and the incredible amount of details that we have to to go into with just writing reports now is astounding. It should take an officer no more than 10 minutes to write a report at any given time. I feel that the requirements for any officer, deputy, or trooper needs to be relaxed and the DA's office shouldnt be able to have so much say in the way we do our work. I realize that the DA's office has in incredibly high standard, that's great, but I also think they need to remember that this is a video game, not real life. A lot of us are not real cops, and we do this for fun. the moment it starts feeling like a job is when I want to go on an extended LOA with no end date.
 

Mac

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The photograph / cropping rule is not that big of a deal my guy. You just take a bigger screen shot. It makes common sense that you can’t just take an up close picture depicting a bag of coke with no visible context and call that your evidence.

If a person is pleading guilty, the report should not take longer than 10 minutes. You’re right. And it doesn’t. If they are pleading not guilty and going to court, sorry but that’s just how it is. You gotta do more work cause they want to fight your charge. You can still do a 15/20 minute arrest report, then whenever you have time in the next 24 hours you can sit down and do a more detailed profiling.
 

Nerdling

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The photograph / cropping rule is not that big of a deal my guy. You just take a bigger screen shot. It makes common sense that you can’t just take an up close picture depicting a bag of coke with no visible context and call that your evidence.

If a person is pleading guilty, the report should not take longer than 10 minutes. You’re right. And it doesn’t. If they are pleading not guilty and going to court, sorry but that’s just how it is. You gotta do more work cause they want to fight your charge. You can still do a 15/20 minute arrest report, then whenever you have time in the next 24 hours you can sit down and do a more detailed profiling.
Its an example of the micromanagement that were constantly faced with. Im not saying its all bad but its also not exactly good either. There needs to be more flexibility without compromising quality.
 

skinner

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The real issue seems to be criminals aren't held to the same standard. DOJ/DA requires so much from cops and Staff/Management expects them to be role models for RP. A criminal can get tased 15 times and keep running away in handcuffs whining and crying about why they are being arrested for committing a crime. :unsure:

I can assure you that the Nonstop team wants to crack down on Crim/Civ roleplay and ensure a higher quality that closes the gap between crim and leo roleplay standards. Open. A. Player. Report.
 

JacqueMann

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Please if you gonna crop the image at least show yours and their pocket u-u. I cant assume where something is if I only see a singular item.
 

ayayashalay

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Since a couple of the above statements are about my character, Judge Ruby York, I might as well put my opinion here too.

- As a Judge for the DOJ, we do not look at the Pre-filings for the DA's office.

- Bodycam opt-in list was created before I was a Judge in this city. It is an option for all Police and as DOJ we refer to the list when looking at some evidence.

- With the introduction of more Judges in the past 2 months, as a collective we have cleared a backlog of cases, subpoenas and Search & Seizures.



Subpoenas and Search & Seizures are done In Character. As a Judge I sometimes ask a few questions while reviewing the subpoena. I assumed I would receive a simple answer that the family member was a person of interest in an ongoing investigation and continue with the subpoena. Instead I was given an IC personal slander.

I like to RP, and RPing in text or emails can be completely misconstrued. A grain of salt and grace should be used from both sides. And you can always chat with a Judge or DOJ member in character, which usually helps any misunderstandings.

I personally don't think the standards are too high.


Please do not take this as an attack on you. Like I said in the original post, having more DoJ around has been great. I'm not sure about the IC personal slander part. We just collectively wanted to discuss the expectations for police and for me those were easy examples that came to mind.
 

ayayashalay

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The real issue seems to be criminals aren't held to the same standard. DOJ/DA requires so much from cops and Staff/Management expects them to be role models for RP. A criminal can get tased 15 times and keep running away in handcuffs whining and crying about why they are being arrested for committing a crime. :unsure:

I can assure you that the Nonstop team wants to crack down on Crim/Civ roleplay and ensure a higher quality that closes the gap between crim and leo roleplay standards. Open. A. Player. Report.
THIS! Cops are held to more of a serious rp standard and crims can go the more semi-serious route.
 

Wormate

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Yeah I agree. I love that they are trying hard to improve but stuff like that is a bit too serious.
 

ThatEffinGuy

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When crims stop driving onto roofs of houses to escape in a chase or full sending it up and down hills then I’ll see a need for nit picking how a camera is present or not. Keep in mind police IRL have cameras on their cell phones that they use in many places for taking photos.

seems like someone was given a crazy loose leash on creating policies and didn’t consider the ways it would impact others. Yes to a reasonably realistic system but I’ve just as a cadet spent 40 mins writing reports because someone “just wanted to experience a bench trial” only for it to be tossed out cause “I can’t read”. What a waste of time. I wouldn’t have minded had the bench trial been fun and interesting but he was allowed to rep himself and I don’t blame the judge who tossed it cause he was being stupid. It shouldn’t have been entertained since he already admitted he’d agree to guilty plea if….
If it’s gonna be a demanding reporting system then(and I don’t know how yet I’m tired) but a more robust MDT is needed to account for the demands being asked.
I can comment on this as I was the Judge who was going to preside over that Bench Trial... He was trying to Self Represent himself. Since he was trying to self represent and stated that he couldnt read the evidence against him. That then will make the trial unfair for the defendant and goes against his Constitutional Rights to have a fair trial. So thats why the bench trial was dismissed and said he could contact a lawyer and he could then go to a real trial. He also stated when I was asking him if he was under the influence of any drugs he said "If I say yes, that means we cant continue." That also made me believe he was under the influence of drugs which then wouldnt help him have a fair trial either. There was more to it then you think. Also his plea wasnt guilty until he said "Fuck it, I am guilty then." His original plea was NOT GUILTY
 

DanONeill14

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At the end of the day, cops are being held to a more serious benchmark in comparison to Civs/Crims. Cops have to spend 40 mins on paperwork maybe even more, when a criminal doesn't even have to "clean" his 5000 dollars he made from selling drugs. Just need more equality :)
 

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oh boy... somebody hold my beer. =)

where to begin... roleplaying an LEO isn't something difficult. for those of you nay-sayers that disagree, remember that you don't even have to go out looking for roleplay as an LEO, it's pretty much placed at your feet.. gift wrapped, ready to be torn into. the hardest part of the RP is remaining constant.. being a cop is a very 'give what i get from you' sort of position. (feel free to disagree with this, but don't call my opinion wrong.)

in my honest opinion, we can't expect to hold LEOs to be 'serious' in every situation... not with the mentality of some of our crims, civs, or players. that being said, you can't hold everyone to the same standards.. you have to strive for consistency.

now, more-so onto this topic.. i'll be brief. there is no LE organization in the city that works for or is governed by the DOJ.. there never should be either. the purpose of the DOJ is to practice, implement, and interpret the law.. the purpose of LE is to enforce those laws. there really shouldn't be any confusion with that.. as a DA or CJ shouldn't be telling the chief of police how to run their department, and the chief shouldn't be telling them how to prosecute somebody.

you'll accomplish much more if you work together.. in turn, this will make the roleplay more enjoyable for everyone involved. egos shouldn't be involved.
 

nevaRaven

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If something doesn't exist mechanically, we shouldn't be trying to "RP" it from an evidence perspective. I would even say that IF something requires the management team to do via ticket, and there is no IC way for a judge or lawyer to do, then it shouldn't be part of the process at all. This is also a big reason behind backlogs of requests and slowness of DOJ...there is no way for folks to do a lot of this ingame right now.
 

Mac

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there is no LE organization in the city that works for or is governed by the DOJ..
Until the commissioner's office was founded, all LE Agencies reported to the DOJ. So this is relatively new. Also, should the Marshal's Service ever return, their entire existence is to be the enforcement arm of the DOJ, falling directly under the DOJ. To serve court orders and process, and protect judicial assets.

s a DA or CJ shouldn't be telling the chief of police how to run their department
The DA is actually the chief law enforcement officer for a jurisdiction. They chose who gets prosecuted or not. If they issue a memo saying "The following is unlawful" or "If you do this, we will prosecute you" or "We will not be prosecuting the following cases", then that directly effects Law Enforcement. And the DA's Office falls under the DOJ, but is also it's own agency.
 

nevaRaven

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If something doesn't exist mechanically, we shouldn't be trying to "RP" it from an evidence perspective. I would even say that IF something requires the management team to do via ticket, and there is no IC way for a judge or lawyer to do, then it shouldn't be part of the process at all. This is also a big reason behind backlogs of requests and slowness of DOJ...there is no way for folks to do a lot of this ingame right now.
furthermore, there is no such thing as a burner phone or changing numbers, deleting texts, etc., so text messages being admissible in court is kind of powergaming.
 

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furthermore, there is no such thing as a burner phone or changing numbers, deleting texts, etc., so text messages being admissible in court is kind of powergaming.
I would actually like to see a dark web app on the phones to allow these types of anon, or non traceable ways of communication. If the channel was discovered by an officer and they were able to do their detective work to figure out who it is (the person) saying something... i say that would be fun for them and great evidence in court

I think this really would help clean up a lot of the "selling potted plants" and "totally not street racing, but come bring a fast car" type bleets.
 
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Johnny Greene

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furthermore, there is no such thing as a burner phone or changing numbers, deleting texts, etc., so text messages being admissible in court is kind of powergaming.
brought this up... was straight up told it isn't powergaming. and it's not kind of powergaming, it's the definition of it.
 

Ninj

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Tbh I disagree the text messages are given technically by the phone company and so they would see any and all texts you send anyway and there are ways to avoid it like not texting incriminating stuff.
 

Johnny Greene

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Until the commissioner's office was founded, all LE Agencies reported to the DOJ. So this is relatively new. Also, should the Marshal's Service ever return, their entire existence is to be the enforcement arm of the DOJ, falling directly under the DOJ. To serve court orders and process, and protect judicial assets.


The DA is actually the chief law enforcement officer for a jurisdiction. They chose who gets prosecuted or not. If they issue a memo saying "The following is unlawful" or "If you do this, we will prosecute you" or "We will not be prosecuting the following cases", then that directly effects Law Enforcement. And the DA's Office falls under the DOJ, but is also it's own agency.
and maybe, just maybe that's entirely too much power for one person to have in a virtual city where everyone isn't on the same page... see how it could be damaging. hopefully the governors office can help with that.
 

Johnny Greene

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Tbh I disagree the text messages are given technically by the phone company and so they would see any and all texts you send anyway and there are ways to avoid it like not texting incriminating stuff.
that's great... where do you pay your phone bill?? can you do that from your phone...?? even more so, what's the name of the phone company??

and honestly, if your only answer is 'don't text stupid stuff'.... yeah, touche'. now tell that to everyone who texts you... the problem with it is, and i'm sorry if you don't see it, there's no way to delete contacts, texts, phone numbers, ANYTHING like that. hell, to a point it would even ADD roleplay, since we'd actually have the ability to DO that, and it would make getting things like phone records THAT much rewarding.
 

Ninj

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Well there are things that cannot be recreated 100% like real life unless you want to start paying for insurance and wait at the DMV for 3 hours to get a new license and people that text you that is true there is no fix for other peoples’ stupidity but it is what it is
 
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