DoJ Standards for Police-Too Much Realism?

ThatEffinGuy

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Tbh I disagree the text messages are given technically by the phone company and so they would see any and all texts you send anyway and there are ways to avoid it like not texting incriminating stuff.
But if you had an app or a program that sent cryptic messages or was like the dark web, it would be a tad difficult for the phone company to understand and all.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a darkweb or something similar for those purposes... Also this text message and phone company thing is getting a little bit far from the main topic of this. As that is nothing the DOJ can control, that is something up to staff and the owners of this server
 

Ninj

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But if you had an app or a program that sent cryptic messages or was like the dark web, it would be a tad difficult for the phone company to understand and all.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a darkweb or something similar for those purposes... Also this text message and phone company thing is getting a little bit far from the main topic of this. As that is nothing the DOJ can control, that is something up to staff and the owners of this server
I agree a dark web thing would be cool I am just saying it makes sense that all texts deleted or not can be seen however a dark web thing would be nice as an option
 

Johnny Greene

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Well there are things that cannot be recreated 100% like real life unless you want to start paying for insurance and wait at the DMV for 3 hours to get a new license and people that text you that is true there is no fix for other peoples’ stupidity but it is what it is
or waiting 75 days to get a trial? =)

we can fight the 'realism' bug all night, it's still icky... more people find it power-gamey than don't, because we don't have anything as civs to combat it. 'don't be stupid on the phone' is a serious cop out.
 

Frigga Haugensen

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or waiting 75 days to get a trial? =)

we can fight the 'realism' bug all night, it's still icky... more people find it power-gamey than don't, because we don't have anything as civs to combat it. 'don't be stupid on the phone' is a serious cop out.
cough - average time is down to 20 days now
 

Cavor Arnom

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Sounds to me like people don't like people investigating them and want to just be the perfect criminals. There are SO many ways around it. So really and truly, if you dont want stuff in your text records. Do better and don't be lazy
 

Johnny Greene

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Sounds to me like people don't like people investigating them and want to just be the perfect criminals. There are SO many ways around it. So really and truly, if you dont want stuff in your text records. Do better and don't be lazy
how many ways exactly.... that pertain to using a phone? specifically messaging and contacts? (ps - constructive talk here y'all, i'm not trying to pick a fight.)

i think you're missing the point that i'm trying to make.... 'don't be lazy and do better' isn't the answer.. it'd be a better answer if we had the option to delete contacts, all the same it's still the definition of powergaming. why are there not mass cases over bleeter then???

and in the same respect, like you opened your statement... it sounds to me like you don't like when people question things, and just want to be the perfect detective. see how silly that sounds?
 

kellzter

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Maybe not allowing the arresting officer to take the stand because their name wasn't moved two lines down as a witness and declaring a mistrial is a bit much, considering how many people's time gets wasted in a situation like that. Unless you're the defendant and don't even show up.
 

jay17

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Maybe not allowing the arresting officer to take the stand because their name wasn't moved two lines down as a witness and declaring a mistrial is a bit much, considering how many people's time gets wasted in a situation like that. Unless you're the defendant and don't even show up.
Typically, I distance myself from these sorts of topics but I thought I might aswell take a bite at the apple here.

While I can understand the frustration and confusion a decision like that may cause I think it's also important to recognize here that typically Defense Attorneys build their cases off of technicalities. I get that police officers want to have fun, but I think it should also be recognized that we (lawyers) also want to have fun. The Department of Justice is built off a set of rules, rules that we all have to abide literally but also ethically. With that same respect, it's our job as lawyers to ensure that we have filed paperwork correctly, and sometimes when we make mistakes other attorneys capitalize off that because it is their job. I'm in no way saying that we should make police officers' jobs annoying to do, although, I do believe we should be given some respect and recognize that we too are here to have fun.
 

Mac

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Typically, I distance myself from these sorts of topics but I thought I might aswell take a bite at the apple here.

While I can understand the frustration and confusion a decision like that may cause I think it's also important to recognize here that typically Defense Attorneys build their cases off of technicalities. I get that police officers want to have fun, but I think it should also be recognized that we (lawyers) also want to have fun. The Department of Justice is built off a set of rules, rules that we all have to abide literally but also ethically. With that same respect, it's our job as lawyers to ensure that we have filed paperwork correctly, and sometimes when we make mistakes other attorneys capitalize off that because it is their job. I'm in no way saying that we should make police officers' jobs annoying to do, although, I do believe we should be given some respect and recognize that we too are here to have fun.


By the same token, today was the first time the DOJ has ever stated "You are required to have witnesses attend trial." Previously, we were all operating under "We can't possibly get everyone involved in a case to match up schedules perfectly to make it to a trial. If they can make the trial date, great. If not, there are alternatives". It was understood that defense attorneys could subpoena witnesses for depositions prior to trial and could question them that way. If no deposition, then the witness statements on the docket were taken at face value.

Up until recently, you would not had even gotten the chance to make that motion for the technicality today. It would have been a default judgement. But, for the sake of RP, the DOJ is now allowing trials to go forward without the defendant showing up. You swung for the fences and got a homerun for your client, but the pitcher you were batting against was a first-at-pitch judge that just joined the minor leagues.
 

jay17

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By the same token, today was the first time the DOJ has ever stated "You are required to have witnesses attend trial." Previously, we were all operating under "We can't possibly get everyone involved in a case to match up schedules perfectly to make it to a trial. If they can make the trial date, great. If not, there are alternatives". It was understood that defense attorneys could subpoena witnesses for depositions prior to trial and could question them that way. If no deposition, then the witness statements on the docket were taken at face value.

Up until recently, you would not had even gotten the chance to make that motion for the technicality today. It would have been a default judgement. But, for the sake of RP, the DOJ is now allowing trials to go forward without the defendant showing up. You swung for the fences and got a homerun for your client, but the pitcher you were batting against was a first-at-pitch judge that just joined the minor leagues.
I'm not going to engage in this too much because I feel like this is a conversation that could go on forever because everybody has a different perspective and perception on how things should or shouldn't operate in the Department of Justice. So I'll keep it simple. The reason why I have always found the law so interesting is because a case is never really over until it has gone through the many stages of appeal. When I make a decision, I take into consideration the chances of losing an appeal that is filed by opposing counsel because truthfully a short-term win doesn't help me if it causes a long-term loss. I think it's also important to understand that Judges aren't new to the law, they aren't brand new people to the law who have never done any research or spent a day in the courtroom. These are people who have previously been long-standing and also are attorneys in good standing (or I would think). To say that a newly appointed Judge is a part of the 'minor leagues' would be a misrepresentation of the amount of work they put in to get into that position, in my opinion.

We have appeals for exactly this reason. If the respective attorney believes that a Judge incorrectly interpreted or applied the law you can appeal that decision to the Superior Court, where they can make the final decision.
 
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kellzter

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The Department of Justice is built off a set of rules, rules that we all have to abide literally but also ethically. With that same respect, it's our job as lawyers to ensure that we have filed paperwork correctly, and sometimes when we make mistakes other attorneys capitalize off that because it is their job.
That's the point of this thread though, discussing whether or not the amount of realism that is happening in the DOJ is appropriate for an RP server. And in my opinion, being so strict in regards to something like paperwork and delaying an entire case just isn't right or fair to people who made the effort to be there. I feel like we should focus more on the RP rather than paperwork.
 

jay17

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That's the point of this thread though, discussing whether or not the amount of realism that is happening in the DOJ is appropriate for an RP server. And in my opinion, being so strict in regards to something like paperwork and delaying an entire case just isn't right or fair to people who made the effort to be there. I feel like we should focus more on the RP rather than paperwork.
Yeah, I understand your opinion and I think this is where we clash for a little bit between the attorneys and police officers. Because from my perspective the paperwork has no relation to this topic, because the DOJ set standards for the Prosecutors here not the police. It's just a tiny precautionary to ensure witnesses are added to the witness list, it's not saying the police have to do anything more.
 
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