Reducing Charges in The Criminal Code

Jamiie

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Since I started playing crim more, I started to realise that the criminal code is pretty inconsistent and some of the charges seem to hold a crazy length/fine, which is something I feel probably a lot of criminals are feeling, just without the cop perspective as well, of actually seeing the times and fines.

I get the idea that the DOJ had to make some of the trafficking etc, which I actually agree with but some of the other charges, class 3 etc are insane.

Having long lengths and big fines on charges has a large knock on effect in the community realistically, leading to either crims being discouraged to do crime or engaging on more ratty strats, both of these then in turn lead to less cops due to either nothing to do or constantly getting shit on by scumbag rat crim strats.

It also has an affect on the gun market, as the mandatory raid affects the class 3 usage less than having to sit in jail for OVER AN HOUR just for having one on you.

The mandatory S&S for class 3's adds to roleplay, forcing people to sit in jail for over an hour just for having one does not.

Example 1

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Example 2

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Example 3

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Example 4

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Major_hyman

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I don’t really play crim that much but I agree the times and fines are hefty and could do with being balanced a bit.
 

Cavor Arnom

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I do agree the times are a bit outrageous... fines however, all I hear is how everyone has so much money and how money is so easy to come by. I don't play a criminal though, so people could just be blowing smoke up my ass. However, it does add just go to show that there is very little rewards for a giant risk. Not to mention new people coming to the server and wanting to play crim get instantly put into debt on their first day.

One thing that I don't think gets taken into a count is the fact that when someone gets one of these charges, they generally get other charges along with it. For Attempted Murder of a Peace Officer, Class 3 Possession, Armed Bank Robbery, Kidnapping, and Felony Evading criminals are looking at 210 months just for those 5 charges. 95% of the time we can tag on more possession charges too. That is 3.5 hours spent in prison in real time.
 

KiwiDoodles

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I think the idea behind having long times and hefty fines is to make the criminals think before they do things. Or at least that should be the idea.

The very idea that attempted murder of a peace officer was WHAT it was vs what it is now, was hilarious. If you attempt to murder someone (if you get charged that) you 100% should be in the slammer for a while. Not saying a million years, but a good chunk.

With the class 3s, you really shouldn’t be having those on your person/in your car every day. Class 3s should only be brought out when it’s a dire need.

As a petty criminal, who doesn’t touch ANY of the heftier stuff, I do agree that some things do seem a bit crazy.

Before the changes, I did an example, if I robbed a store, with no hostage, no gun (and the police didn’t just bombard into the store because hurr durr no hostage), I would be looking at a minimum of 50 months and a 5k fine. Which when you rob a store… NOT really worth it. But if I had a gun/hostage/etc the whole shebang, I believe it increased to like 90 months and a 16k fine. So…

With bigger things, I think the time/fine should stay high because then it makes yall think before you act. And when it comes to smaller, pettier things like mugging, or store robbery (without touching the safe), it should be a bit laxer. But Im not DOJ, and this is just my insight on it.
 

Cappareli

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I think it would be a lot cooler and would benefit roleplay if we reduced the time but kept the fines. The current times are a soft ban on the server for that character. You basically lose any chance to RP further for the night in most cases for the cooler side of criminal scenes. At the end of the day its about having fun!
 

Cerberus6Shot

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I personally feel the times are to encourage people to bond out when possible. This adds another aspect to criminals and encourages them to utilize in city services. By making the jail times hefty, it encourages them to consider other options rather than just 'doing the time.' Im new though and dont really do the crim side of things so maybe Im way off base.
 

BumbleeMublee

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As someone who was used to receive somewhere between 500 months and 2000 months in prison, I think that the times are very reasonable. Lets not forget that there should be consequences for your actions and we do have DOC officers who probably want to roleplay as well. The times are super short in my opinion. I wouldn't even be upset if the time would become longer what would encourage perhaps more people joining DOC and increasing Prison RP. I personally love Prison time, I would love to see more DOC officers and more inmates in there. Perhaps even lifers. I wouldn't mind playing a lifer myself just so there would be RP in prison all the time. I have seen it before and it was an amazing fun. But if people get charged like 10-50 months and then there is silence in prison for like 5 hours, no surprise the RP there is slow and we missing a lot of possibilities.

However, as someone who plays criminal, I must admit that some fines are a bit too high. I am in debt now and my debt is growing and I was a new criminal in town immediately charged with quite a few fines. I understand that people say money is easy to come by. Maybe it is easy when you love grinding, or you are a long term player who has been around for months if not years and have hundreds of connections. New people come in and have to build connections, grow prior they can come up with easy money. Getting money is VERY hard if you focus on RP and not grinding, and you don't have old connections and you take an in depth slow RP where you don't grow up being a super professional criminal in a day. Character build-up is needed and when you are hit by those fines... it is very complicated. I love it, myself, but some may get upset about it. So, I wouldn't mind seeing fines decreased.

To sum up my personal opinion - I wish that the times would be increased and fines reduced just a little bit.
Make it hard. Hard is fun and challenging.
 

Svenny

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You rob a psb and shoot cops you can face 240 months and a 50k fine if the cop is a asshole.

One of the biggest incomes is whitelisted gang missions. If you dont have that you either slave away selling drugs or spam banks
 

IAmTheValeyard

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I’ll add more later but the 80k fine was potato brain on me lol. It was in the MDT at the right amount and in the criminal code with a dumbass typo.
 

Nekris

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I only play a crim on NS, and have been doing so since November 2020. Since that time, my character has been arrested one time, it was in January. Times and fines are good. the problem with crims is the mentality of crims that think they should be able to do whatever they want without consequences. Jail and fines are supposed to deter you from doing stupid shit and encourage people to try and big brain it. if you are going to dumb stuff like run around carrying automatic weapons 24/7, shoot in front of witnesses, or constantly shoot police, then yes you probably should end up in jail for a very long time and get hit with a hefty fine. in real life, in my state, 3 felonies = life in prison. and it doesn't matter what the felonies are or how bad they are.

Now just to be clear, I'm not saying every little mickey mouse crime should get the book thrown at people. but currently i know i can roll around with automatic weapons while openly blasting people in the street with little to no consequences whatsoever, regardless of how many witnesses spectate the crime or how much evidence is left behind.

Also, while this bit doesn't apply to me, there are people on this server that just want to play good law abiding characters. I assume cops want people to be witnesses in court, or to give statements on scene to LEOs, or hell even become a CI or a snitch. But why on earth would anyone let their character be labeled as one of those things when even if the crim is arrested, they are out in a hour or a few days and then immediately go after the player that assisted.

if you want more RP over GP, while it will be unpopular among action junkies, you should consider increasing times and fines on serious crimes until the server achieves the level of RP over GP that the staff desires to see on the server.
 

Johnny Greene

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I only play a crim on NS, and have been doing so since November 2020. Since that time, my character has been arrested one time, it was in January. Times and fines are good. the problem with crims is the mentality of crims that think they should be able to do whatever they want without consequences. Jail and fines are supposed to deter you from doing stupid shit and encourage people to try and big brain it. if you are going to dumb stuff like run around carrying automatic weapons 24/7, shoot in front of witnesses, or constantly shoot police, then yes you probably should end up in jail for a very long time and get hit with a hefty fine. in real life, in my state, 3 felonies = life in prison. and it doesn't matter what the felonies are or how bad they are.

Now just to be clear, I'm not saying every little mickey mouse crime should get the book thrown at people. but currently i know i can roll around with automatic weapons while openly blasting people in the street with little to no consequences whatsoever, regardless of how many witnesses spectate the crime or how much evidence is left behind.

Also, while this bit doesn't apply to me, there are people on this server that just want to play good law abiding characters. I assume cops want people to be witnesses in court, or to give statements on scene to LEOs, or hell even become a CI or a snitch. But why on earth would anyone let their character be labeled as one of those things when even if the crim is arrested, they are out in a hour or a few days and then immediately go after the player that assisted.

if you want more RP over GP, while it will be unpopular among action junkies, you should consider increasing times and fines on serious crimes until the server achieves the level of RP over GP that the staff desires to see on the server.
couldn't have said this better myself... gun play isn't role play, it just isn't and i'm sorry for you if you think it is.. you're missing a lot.

if anything, there should be more time for offenses and even MORE time for multiple offenses. as long as (mentality) people realize that a character is getting punished for their actions and not a player, cops SHOULD stack charges.. there SHOULD be more consequence.
 

Brody

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Can we also look at the Licenses and or starting money maybe?

- 2000$ Starting money
&
- 5000$ Weapon License
- 2500$ Boating License
- 10,000$ Hunting License
- 7500$ Fishing License
 

Garrett Stevens

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Can we also look at the Licenses and or starting money maybe?

- 2000$ Starting money
&
- 5000$ Weapon License
- 2500$ Boating License
- 10,000$ Hunting License
- 7500$ Fishing License
I honestly think some of those costs are ridiculous and I'm just a civilian, when comparing some of them to RL costs in California.

A CCP Is roughly $200-$300 dollars in Cali.
A annual fishing license is $54 for a resident or $142 for a non state resident.
A boating license is roughly $40 in California.
A annual hunting license is roughly $50 for a state resident or $170 for a non state resident.

The inflated prices are wack, a couple hundred I have no problem with but forcing someone to pay 16x the cost it would be IRL on top of the costs of equipment, vehicles, etc would IRL result in lawsuits.
 

ThatEffinGuy

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I honestly think some of those costs are ridiculous and I'm just a civilian, when comparing some of them to RL costs in California.

A CCP Is roughly $200-$300 dollars in Cali.
A annual fishing license is $54 for a resident or $142 for a non state resident.
A boating license is roughly $40 in California.
A annual hunting license is roughly $50 for a state resident or $170 for a non state resident.

The inflated prices are wack, a couple hundred I have no problem with but forcing someone to pay 16x the cost it would be IRL on top of the costs of equipment, vehicles, etc would IRL result in lawsuits.
Our economy is pretty much 16x what IRL prices are as well... So this is pretty invalid to even bring up and compare apples to apples with.... These licenses IMO are actually pretty decent because it makes you actually roleplay and not automatically get everything handed to you immediately in the server. This is a ROLEPLAY server not a lets get everything immediately and be squared away from the get go.



The only jobs in the server that really doesnt pay that well is "The Mighty Bush" which is $100 per package delivered. If you go and pretty much do any other job, GoPostal/Mining/Work for someone. You can easily make enough money for majority of those licenses in 1/2 hours of play. Personally, I think majority of them are at a decent price (yes I have a crim and a normal civ outside of DOJ) and it really didnt take me too long to make any of that money for the licenses and I actually got some roleplay out of it before even coming across them. People who just make a character shouldnt be having so much knowledge about everything from the get go (IMO) when they arrive off the airport. Shit, its pretty easy to grab pretty much anything you need from a fucking garbage bin or dumpster as well.
 

skinner

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Myself and @IAmTheValeyard will be working on all the charges today. Mainly focusing on universal times per category. The fines probably wont change much.
 

Jamiie

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if anything, there should be more time for offenses and even MORE time for multiple offenses. as long as (mentality) people realize that a character is getting punished for their actions and not a player, cops SHOULD stack charges.. there SHOULD be more consequence.
Half of the people playing the server primarily play one character, if that one character goes to jail for 3 hours and there's no DOC, they are practically soft banned from playing. Right now, I think 8/10 I go to jail, there's no DOC.

If anything I think the best outcome would be a parole system where if no DOC are on, you can get out in a quarter of your time or something and if you get arrested again before the full sentence has passed, it gets stacked on top of whatever you get arrested for.
- Maybe this could work with the bond system or something? idk I've literally never even heard of anyone getting bond lol
if you want more RP over GP, while it will be unpopular among action junkies, you should consider increasing times and fines on serious crimes until the server achieves the level of RP over GP that the staff desires to see on the server.
The main reason for this post was the inconsistency in some of the charges, like carrying an AK being longer in jail than shooting a cop, but the idea that increasing times and fines will improve RP might work in the short run, but there's no incentive to actually roleplay better, just to not get caught, which to me at least does not = better roleplay
 

Nekris

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Half of the people playing the server primarily play one character, if that one character goes to jail for 3 hours and there's no DOC, they are practically soft banned from playing. Right now, I think 8/10 I go to jail, there's no DOC.

The main reason for this post was the inconsistency in some of the charges, like carrying an AK being longer in jail than shooting a cop, but the idea that increasing times and fines will improve RP might work in the short run, but there's no incentive to actually roleplay better, just to not get caught, which to me at least does not = better roleplay
I understand a lot of people only play one character. but that's not a good enough reason to argue for shorter jail times (or to not rest/RP injuries). a lot of people (not saying you, just a lot of people) treat this server like a more organized version of GTA:O, and that's not what RP is. furthermore, resting for an injury or being sent to prison should not be seen as a punishment or a "soft ban". you never know who you will meet in prison or at the hospital, no idea what connections can be made, or where those interactions can lead. people that have these set in stone paths for their characters are usually the ones that get the most upset when things don't go their way. And when people don't have the set in stone path, and are super flexible / able to just roll with things on their character, it usually leads to a better overall experience for everyone involved. a person may not have planned to spend an IRL week in jail, but again that really shouldn't be seen as a "soft ban" just because you can't do whatever you feel like doing. you can still play the character, can still RP, can still make connects, and can still add to that character's story. setbacks can be the spice of RP life. My primary character has definitely dealt with his share of multiple setbacks over the last 10 months.

I 100% agree that fines and times should be consistent, things should definitely make sense. But I guess I don't understand what you're trying to get at in your last sentence there. Shooting, 99% of the time does not add to or build upon roleplay. shooting is usually the resolution of roleplay, the final page to another chapter in a character's story. The incentive to roleplay better isn't related to getting caught or not. The people that only care about wins and losses, or getting caught and getting away, or owning the fastest car, being the best, etc, these people aren't roleplaying, they are min/maxxing game mechanics in an attempt to collect W's like they're collecting pokemon. <3
 

Mac

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Lots of changes to the criminal code came out. Take a look
 

Veenstra

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drug charges are kind of rough. its 20, 25 or 35 months for 199 bags of weed, heroin or coke.
and if you have 1 more baggy (200+) you suddenly get 4 years and the fine goes x10


I personally feel that the license point system needs a rework too. Theres alot of secondary charges like window tints and headlights that stack up too many points. IMO points should only be given for Driving infractions. Not for shit like headlights or window tints
 
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